S6E10 - Butcher of Bosnia - Operation Ram

I don't got time to mark this motherfucker. Here we go again. We can't hear anybody. Nobody can talk to anybody.
You guessed it, Pressure Points. It's your two favorite hosts, Sam D and this is Sorcerous AJ.
We're coming at you with Season 6, Episode 10, The Butchers of Bosnia, Operation RAM.
I'll be talking about the planning and coordination of Serbs prior to the attack at Sarajevo.
It's going to be a hefty one. Strap in, get ready, find us on Instagram at Pointillpressure.
Well, turn the fucking thing off, you dumbass.
So for those taking SSRIs, take your Lexapro now.
Yes, definitely.
Damn, what a week.
Yeah.
I honestly didn't do a lot, but...
Me neither, but it was a good weekend.
But what a week. Oh yeah.
It was a very good weekend.
And you gotta hurry. It sucks because it's like, I want to hear this story and all your research that you've done,
because there's just a lot to talk about today and a lot of shit to do after this.
Yeah, this is a fucking hefty one.
And before the show, AJ was like, well, what's the timeline of events as compared to World War II?
Well, because for me to understand something, I have to put it in the context of something that I understand.
Which is perfect because this is almost a one-to-one comparison to World War II.
It's funny because you're like, oh, I fucking love World War II, and I'm like, I love 50 years later.
Yeah, 50 years later when the reincarnation...
A little southeast of that. It's fucked, man.
The way everything lines up is just a mess and it's bad news to bears.
But how was your week?
Oh, you know, it was good. I bombed a test.
Oh, no.
I'll pass the class.
But I guess I should probably like study or something.
Maybe this is my wake up call.
That's fair.
No, it's fine. Hi, Cody.
Other than that, it was totally boring until Saturday night.
Why is that?
Diablo 4 open beta.
It wasn't even the open. We were closed.
We're the closed beta.
We got it because of the show. We got it because we're so famous.
Yeah, they sent us codes.
No, we got it because KFC is a dying brand and we'll take anything.
A lot of people are bitching about it.
Really?
Yeah.
Why? It was like $3.
I mean, there are people that pre-ordered and they're like, oh my God.
Wait, the pre-orders didn't get it?
No, no, no, they did.
Oh, okay.
I thought it was just the KFC customers.
We were like, this is dog shit.
There was one guy I was reading a review on Reddit and he was like, wow,
this is seriously the best they have to show us.
And I was like, do you even know what the fuck a beta is?
I'm having a blast with it.
This is a test.
It looks like here's my official review.
This isn't to show off.
It's beautiful.
Yeah.
It is beautiful.
It's so cool.
Yeah, the world, like the open world, kind of boring.
It's kind of whatever, but the dungeons are amazing.
They're impeccable.
And I love the idea of random bosses that show up randomly in dungeons.
So they're not always there.
I love that shit.
I think it's fun as hell.
No, we're having a blast.
But I mean, mind you, these are also people that are like, I've played every single Diablo
game for the last 20 years.
I don't even know the story.
I have no idea.
I don't give a shit.
It's fun as fuck.
I was just like, damn, how do they keep killing Diablo for four games?
Like, I have no idea what happened with it.
Yeah, I fucking dig it.
And both of us are now convinced to get it when it comes out.
I think so.
If you've got a thing to play on, download it this next weekend.
We'll make a clan.
We'll make a pressure points clan.
We've got one already.
We just have to remove your wife and my girlfriend from it.
Well, until more people join.
Yeah, there we go.
Then we'll invite them and then nobody will know.
Exactly.
Oh shit.
Is there a way they can get our real name from that?
Probably.
I don't know.
OK.
Well, don't count on it yet.
We'll figure something out.
Because of all the people who were going to play Diablo 4 with us.
So not next weekend.
So two weeks from now.
I'll be in Vegas.
Jerk.
My girlfriend was at her parents' house today and they were like talking about fucking health
insurance and everything and they were like, oh yeah, like, what's your plan?
She's all, oh, I don't know, D and I might we might just do some stupid little courthouse
thing and like, hell yeah.
And her mom turns to her and goes, why don't you just elope in Vegas in two weeks?
Dude, good idea.
Oh, fuck.
Yeah, maybe.
Do you know how easy it is to you?
You I was going to I was going to dox the city that we're in.
Never mind.
Holy shit.
You go to the specific county like city building and you just say, hey, we want to get married.
And then they have you sign a form.
The other person signs a form and then you get a certificate and it's done and you're
done.
Like it is so easy.
But yeah, we were we were like, shit, maybe we'll have Elvis as our witness in Vegas.
Who knows?
Yeah, we'll see.
See, what's great is that your significant other officiated our wedding, which is which
is great.
We we I should become a minister.
A friend of mine that I used to live with, my old roommate, actually asked me to officiate
their wedding recently.
Yeah.
What the hell?
Yeah, I was like, OK, so I'm OK.
Next podcast, next podcast exclusive is us going through online courses to become a minister.
Yeah, that'll be the that'll be the March exclusive.
Then it's just we'll start selling it.
50 bucks plus you have to pay for travel to wherever we go to and we get to eat at your
wedding.
Yeah.
You fly us out, fly us out and we will both officiate your wedding in the most disrespectful
way possible.
Your wedding sponsored by pressure.
We bring big banners.
So we knock on the table.
You don't even have to pay us fifty dollars.
All you have to do is fly us out.
You pay for our ticket and then on your wedding invitations, it just has to say sponsored
by pressure.
I have I have the image file.
Perfect.
It says sponsored by pressure points.
You just have to slap that guy on your wedding.
And AJ and I will be there.
Yeah.
And we won't even be there for the wedding.
We just we're just there to sign the paperwork.
And all we ask is that you blur our faces in the in your wedding footage.
All like all of the video and in fact, all for it for you because I don't trust you some
bitches.
And it's going to be the most amateur job.
Like I'm going to be blurring out my face and Dee's face, but it's going to leak over
to like the bride.
Inadvertently blur out their faces in every photo, too.
Whoopsies.
That's the pressure points experience.
Yeah.
But let's bring the tone down.
Let's let's be realistic.
Let's because I've got something to say.
Yeah.
We made a mistake with our previous Butchers of Bosnia episode.
I didn't even want to talk about this.
No, I wanted to because I think it's great.
Oh, we should.
And wait, did we already?
No, no, no, no.
I said I was going to.
No, no, it's OK.
They can hear this.
I am a proponent of censorship.
Attempted, attempted.
No, no, I successfully censored that motherfucker.
Oh, I thought you were saying you were.
You are an attempted censoring.
So I was just scrolling through every once in a while.
I look at the analytics on the YouTube channel, which is weird that we actually get some pretty consistent listeners.
Anyone anyone that listens on because it's not optimized for podcasts.
But, you know, hey, it works.
And we I went and clicked on the comments and they're usually weirdos.
Yeah.
On the conspiracy theory episodes asking to be interviewed or like just making frivolous connections.
It's really funny.
But I had a comment.
I don't remember exactly what I said, but the point of it was I'm Serbian.
I stopped listening after 19 minutes and you owe me an apology.
I don't have time here to give you the true history.
You guys are fucking racist.
And you guys are racist.
And you owe me an apology.
And you owe me an apology.
And I went delete.
Well, his timestamp was like it was it was 30 seconds before we were before we had that whole five minute discussion where we were like, when we're safe, fuck the Serbians.
We really mean fuck these guys perpetrating the racist shit that was going on.
You know, fuck this specific group subset of Serbs.
Yeah.
Like it's like saying fuck the Germans when you're on a World War Two episode.
Obviously, we're not racist against Germans.
I'm not talking about your grandma who like during World War Two.
Like I'm not talking about the good German people that helped the Jews.
Yeah.
I'm talking about neutral Germans who just didn't do anything.
Yeah.
I'm talking about the asshole.
It was like we made it so clear.
Yeah. And we talked about it quickly.
Yeah, we did very briefly.
But like I specifically in my mind during that episode, I was like, we need to specify that we're not actually being racist.
Like, let's define this.
If you would like an apology, whoever the fuck you were, go back and listen to the Yugoslavia's no good, very bad breakup.
Listen to the God's Rambo and Ghost Camaro and then re-listen to fucking Butchers of Bosnia.
I get the sentiment they were going after, I guess, if I really stretching.
But in no way is this supposed to be some like we're not reverse ethnic cleansing the Serbs here.
We're not asking for anybody to do that because of what happened in the 90s.
We're just saying people with a rat in their name during this time period were fucking assholes.
It's just like like how I don't know.
But they must be seeking something.
Mind you, some of the information that I've come across in the last 24 hours, there are a lot of deniers about what about Serbia's involvement in the entire crisis.
There are people that truly do believe none of this happened.
What I'm going to talk about today is a lot of the like more or less the political environment before Sarajevo.
And I mean, even what five years ago, I think there was a I think it was a president, a sitting president over Bosnia and Herzegovina.
Jesus, it's tough.
They said anything that happened in Sarajevo shouldn't be in textbooks because they can't confirm that that happened.
Holy shit.
I'm fucking serious that the Florida Governor Ron DeSantis.
Yeah, is it Ron?
Is that his name?
Yeah.
Oh, thank God.
Because that's what he's saying about slavery.
It's the same fucking idea.
And it's like, bro, this was not even fully 30 years ago that all of this happened.
Like it's in two years will be the like 30 years of the end of that.
So there are a lot of deniers about this, and it blows my mind with how recent it was.
But that's kind of the state of the world that we live in is that there are people who can't take reports and news information when it's right happening right around them.
So last last episode, I discussed the actual butchers of Bosnia and their actual like come up to power.
I was just going to say come up in.
Yeah, they're come up in their rise to power, but didn't really get into like like I talked a little bit about the shadow governments, but didn't touch on it very much.
This episode is literally the shadow government that is preparing everything because they weren't able to get power in 1991.
So in 1991, Bosnia and Herzegovina gained their independence.
And this is pretty much well celebrated among Croats Bosniaks.
Mind you, when I say Bosnia, this isn't like a to cover my ass.
It's strictly for future reference because I hate saying Bosnia Muslims.
I hate saying Yugoslavians people's army.
So there will be things that I shorten when I say Bosnia.
I'm referring to the Bosnia Muslims, not the Bosnia Serbs.
OK.
OK. When I'm referring to Serbs, I'm just going to call them Serbs.
Now, which one is the country they're in?
Yeah, fuck you.
So the Croats and Bosniaks are pretty much well OK with this because it kind of gives both of their minorities a little bit of voice.
We talked about that last time.
The Serbs ended up getting the presidential seat later on in 1991, which put Radovan Kruatsic in power.
And late 1991 into 1992, a referendum of independence is pushed forward.
It's more or less attempting to grant equality among all ethnicities.
This wasn't pushed by Radovan.
Well, yeah, no, that would be kryptonite to Radovan.
It's literally.
This is more like imagine their Congress is like, hey, we need a very definitive referendum of independence.
For equality, because of what I'm going to talk about today, like we see everything that's going on and shit's going to get booked.
Yeah. And this is this is February, March, 1992.
Now, some Serbs completely fucking hate this idea, the SDS included SDS being the like Democratic Serbian group.
Right. Yeah. Yeah.
Remember that?
We should have done a recap.
I mean, I'll go over it as I go.
So the SDS, which is like the Republican fucking Serbian Party, they claim if this goes through, though it gives a Bosnian more power or not more power, though it makes everyone equal, we will now be living in an Islamic state is literally what SDS is pushing here.
Because they're like, if if God, we're equal to Muslims, then we're in an Islamic state in 1990.
And it's like, are you fucking like how jaded can you be?
They're just I mean, you see it all the time, at least in American politics.
I'm sorry. There's too much going on for me to follow anybody else's besides sometimes France, France's.
But they it's it's just oh, this thing's going to happen that makes us all equal.
Nope.
No, that's the it happened with slavery in America.
It's oh fucking terrible.
The slaves are going to be equal.
Well, they're going to buy up all the land.
There's some dumb shit.
Ridiculous.
They might become what we are.
Yeah.
Oh, God.
Landowners business owners and vote.
They might vote.
I'm not racist, but I'm sure she's not OK with that.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
It's it's stupid.
Like the parallels in history over and over and over because we continue not learning from mistakes.
Oh, my God.
That's that's that.
That is the byline of our show is we continue to not learn anything.
God.
Governments don't learn shit.
Anybody, everybody.
Nobody learns shit about fuck.
Sorry.
I'm really heated.
Sorry.
So the Serbs end up boycotting this vote to pass a referendum.
Oh, no.
Independence. Yeah.
They say, you know what?
Fuck you. We're not going to vote on it.
So then it'll pass because of how everything is.
It is like it's all split into thirds.
Thirty three percent Croats, 33 percent Bosniaks, 33 percent Serbs.
And because this is a democracy, it does need a two thirds majority to win.
I mean, when you look at the numbers, it still could be successful because not all of these Serbs are.
Yeah.
Are boycotting.
So the referendum gets what is it?
Sixty three point four percent of the vote.
It misses the two thirds majority by two point six percent.
And because of how high tensions are, the Serbs are basically attempting to secede at this point.
They don't want equality.
They just want power and they want to be grouped up with Serbia due to the concept of all Serbs in one state.
I haven't talked about it up to this point because I just fucking found it today.
All Serbs in one state is saying that was radical.
It didn't.
Sorry.
It's a saying that did radicalize many Serbs from all over the world.
Many Serbs throughout the 80s.
It kind of came to fruition.
I think it was like 1984, 1987.
And it was actually adopted by the SDS.
It was created.
I can't remember exactly who created it, but the idea is creating a greater Serbia.
It more or less not like created a bunch of nationalist Serbs.
Wonderful. That's what you want.
Yeah, they believed in getting all of the Serbian lands rallied together to make a greater Serbia.
I'll refer to greater Serbia later on.
But that's the big like issue.
Like the longstanding issue that goes across this whole thing is that you have Serbs who took all Serbs in one state to heart.
That they were like, OK, everyone across Yugoslavia, if you are Serbian, you're grouped in.
That's why they started to do those separate little communities.
They would go, oh, yeah, this four block radius is we're all Bosnian Serbians.
We're all Serbs. Boom. Like we're all Serbian here.
And they would even fly the Serbian flag despite being in what is now an independent country.
God, it's a mess.
It gets super fucking messy.
I'm so glad I never tried to do this topic. I never succeeded in doing this topic.
Honestly, it's a mess.
It's rough.
So it was believed that all of this should be implemented for the state of all of the Serbians, regardless of the price that they would pay and whether they would have to rise up in arms.
Literally was like that was like their credo was this should be implemented for the state of all Serbs, regardless of the price they pay and whether they'd have to rise up in arms,
which is a fucking terrible thing to believe in.
If it's astounding.
Temperature take.
Yeah.
When when it's like all Serbs in one state and we will fucking kill anybody we have to to make this happen.
Like it's it's pretty blatantly clear how radicalized you are.
Aryans can be here. Everybody needs to do genealogy to figure out if you are an ethnic Aryan.
If you happen to have dark hair and brown eyes, then you're not.
You look like a communist.
It's off to the work camp.
It's a shit show.
Damn. It sounds so familiar.
Yeah, I know.
That's what I mean.
Yeah, I always talk about World War Two as the reference, but it's not like it was new in World War Two.
We've talked about that before. Yeah, I mean, with a history of anti-Semitism.
But that shit.
It's just rough. It's fucked.
Yeah. So as a reminder, there's a shadow government that was created by the SDS and the SDS was more or less put together by Radovan Kradzic himself.
Right. Now you guys remember that rat boy and his secret government.
Exactly. So the shadow the shadow government begins planning Operation Graham, which is what we're talking about today.
I don't know if you remember, but they made that super.
It was a really like stupidly titled document that it was for the organization and activity of Serbian people in Bosnia Herzegovina in extraordinary circumstances.
That one. Yeah, the title of the fucking document is a paragraph.
That's what Operation Ram is all about.
We're basically going to take that title and we're going to find out what the fuck they were doing with their shadow government under like within that document itself.
So Operation Ram was also referred to as Rampart 91, the Ram plan and the Brana plan.
See, that's interesting. I currently am formulating a Ram plan for later tonight.
Now, this plan, we're going to step back a little bit. It's been going on since 1990.
So this plan has been in place well prior to when I think it was like when that document was released in 1991.
But yeah, in 1999, in 1990, when they put all that shadow government shit together, this was almost immediately after it was like, oh, the shadow government is for Operation Ram.
So it was all bureaucracy. Yeah, right. To run an operation. Okay.
So after they weren't able to legally take control of Bosnia in March 1991, the SDS has a meeting in Moscow, Russia, which it's kind of offhand.
You're like, what the fuck, Russia? I know I'll get to it.
But that kind of makes sense. This meeting.
The focus is on Yugoslavian People's Army, which I will refer later to as JNA, just because it's fucking easier to say.
So the Yugoslavian People's Army had a policy that stated it represents all the nations who wish to live in Yugoslavia with a peaceful departure from those who wish to leave it and secure such a policy,
which when you're running something as big as Yugoslavia at the time and you had so many different countries that were kind of in and out, it was established in like 1945.
It's kind of like it's not going to fucking stick together forever.
Well, it's just crazy that they keep saying peaceful. We're just going to peacefully leave this country.
But if you try to stop us, we'll fucking kill you.
Yeah, Yugoslavia like the JNA was fairly good at this point about covering everybody's ass in Yugoslavia, whether you were Serbian, Croatian, whatever.
And it is fair. It's like if you're going to secede, they're going to be there to make sure that everything's peaceful.
Whether like you're having issues with Yugoslavia or Yugoslavia is having an issue with you. It's kind of like, hey, the People's Army is here to protect the people.
This isn't this isn't a People's Army that's like, hey, it was created to fucking kill the people.
Yeah, it was to represent fairly well.
Okay. Now, the SDS has their little meeting and they interpret this this policy as Serbia is protected by the People's Army in the event of a country's secession, which I know it sounds about the same, but more or less what what the JNA is getting at is that, hey, if someone decides to secede,
we'll make sure that everybody's safe.
But the SDS is like, if someone secedes, the JNA will protect Serbia, because Serbia is Yugoslavia was what the SDS interpreted that as.
So they completely exploit this to facilitate the peaceful transition of power, quote, quote, quote.
Yeah, lots of anytime someone says peaceful transition of power, just kind of laugh.
But yeah, while occupying the seceding country, because that's what would normally happen in these situations is the JNA would go okay we're going to put people in Yugoslavia, we're going to put people in the seceding country and then as soon as they have their independence, we're getting the fuck out.
Serbia says, okay, so we have the JNA in Serbia, and then we've got the JNA in the people in the country of the people trying to leave.
That's fucking fantastic. If we can get control of the JNA. Yeah, because it's a standing army already there. Yeah, because it protects greater Serbia.
Oh my god, I'm fucking terrible. I'm starting to grasp, like, yeah, you really got to define what is the nation that they are protecting. Yeah, which is Yugoslavia, but they're going to skew it after Montenegro and Croatia have all already declared independence.
The majority of Yugoslavia at this point is Serbia. Yeah, and then you've got this little subsection that's Bosnia and Herzegovina, and it's like, fuck, dude.
So Bosnia says hey, we're claiming independence and Serbia says, yeah, sure you can have it.
But you're occupied by by your people's army, quote unquote, once again, it's just like a clusterfuck of legal terms and interpretations at this point.
Pain in the ass. Crazy.
So the significance of holding this whole meeting in Russia, I'm sure everyone's just chomping at the bit. Oh, yeah, I know you are.
Part of RAM has been set up to make a secret weapons deal with conservative leaning Soviet Union military leaders. So all of them.
Yeah. Yeah. God damn. That makes sense. This whole thing is set up in fucking Moscow, Russia, so that they can get weapons.
Perfect. And then they can give them to the army that's supposed to protect everybody. Yeah. It's a good deal.
Totally fine. So artillery, ammunition, military equipment are all planned to be stored and hidden across across all of Croatia and Bosnia.
Croatia at this point is independent. Why the fuck are they storing anything there? Because there are Croatians in Bosnia.
So they get with the Soviets. They're like, hey, we need weapons. We have some in the JNA, the people's army.
But we need more. Why, you might ask, so you can put it in the hands of the fucking civilians so you can put it in the hands of locals. That's what you want.
So they started putting together what they called the secret police. Wow. That sounds really goddamn familiar. Yeah.
The this police force is told to arm and train local Serbs, but they don't report to anybody.
It's basically like you go into these Serb the Serb neighborhoods and you say, hey, all of the police in this area, you're all Serb because I mean, you fucking live here.
You live in the neighborhood, whatever. We're going to have a nice little community outreach program.
And you're going to reach out to all of the fathers and 18, 16 and older sons kind of gauge where they are with all of this independence craziness.
And depending on their response, hey, meet up with us on Saturday.
We're going to kind of go over just in case you might need to protect your family against these radicalized Islamic.
Oh, yeah. Always. And so they start fucking training these these groups of locals, these small fucking neighborhood militias.
Those always work out. Yeah. This is going to be fantastic.
Now, the way that they're setting all this up in this meeting is that they want the chain of command to be as tiny as possible to stop anyone from realizing that these aren't just radicalized local militias.
The idea and I know I've talked about it previously in the first episode that I talked about Yugoslavia.
I was like, oh, yeah, a lot of these are radicalized local militias.
Well, they appeared to look that way. Oh, so they got us. Yeah, I got fucking played like a fiddle.
This was all Operation Rams fucking plan is just if we can get weapons into locals hands, we have the we have the people's army behind us because I mean, Serbia is fucking Yugoslavia at this point.
If we can get the locals in the area to rally behind the Serbians, the Serbs, then well, we're in a pretty fucking great position, aren't we?
Oh, yeah. So good old rat cold, Lattice, the other butcher of Bosnia.
The other rat. Yeah, the other rat. He's included in this operation.
He's told he'll be leading the volunteer guard in a group called the White Eagles, also known as the Avengers.
Oh, that's where they got it from. Yeah, right. Yeah.
Captain America is a Serb Avenger. Great.
Hell yeah. Heard it here first. Fuck you, Disney and Marvel. So I'll be talking about those specific militias probably in a later episode, potentially just in a patron exclusive.
Up to this point. That's the first that I've read about them. So I don't know all of their involvement so far.
But he will. So good old rat co is going to be working alongside another general who is and I quote his title, the minister of ethnic cleansing.
Wow. What a job title. Yeah, that is quite the job title. Yeah.
And I'm sure I'm sure rat co is so fucking jealous. Yeah, he wanted that job.
So all the generals in Operation Ram after this big meeting, after they find out that they're involved, they all kind of get together to compare their research as to what the best method of attack is to Bosnia and Herzegovina.
I have to warn you guys.
This is just a blatant trigger warning. This is fucked. Wow, we those are rare. They are very rare. Like I.
I finished my notes in fucking tears today. It is fucking disgusting what was discussed in this meeting.
So the general consensus of these generals is that Bosnia, its morale will can morale and will could be crushed by raping women, especially minors and children, by killing members of the Muslim Muslim nationality inside their religious facilities.
Yeah, I think that would work. Yeah. So, she is the plan to propaganda campaign going after specific social figures and Bosnia communities.
The idea being that if they villainize them, it would cause mass confusion, fear and panic. It's not to get people to switch over and be on the Serb side of things. This is strictly to confuse the shit out of Bosnia, so that it's easier to fucking rape and call them.
At this point, in March, almost 52,000 weapons have been distributed in March 1991. So over the course of like, I think a year since Operation RAM was put together.
They managed to get 52,000 weapons distributed, 24,000 of which were guns in the hands of SDS. That's not just the locals. That's strictly just SDS and they're like, we're going to give this to the Avengers, the fucking Eagles, White Eagles, whatever.
That's where the other 24,000 fucking weapons are going.
And I don't want to grace over the fact that the entire fucking idea of this is to rape and pillage as many women and children as you can, and then just collect all the men together and I don't know, kill them and bury them in a mass grave.
That is their plan. This is a game plan that they had a year before any of this even fucking started.
And like this is, you know, people in business suits.
You know, like this is this is a civilized discussion. This isn't just someone in a mob yelling, yeah, rape them. No, this is like, they were like, okay, what's the most like mathematically statistically, what's the best way we can lower more like, holy shit.
This isn't a reactionary thing. No, like this is a plan. Yeah, because it's at least a year. Yeah, this is a, this is their plan for a preemptive strike.
She's this isn't like, oh shit, they fucking bombed us. It doesn't make it any better if it was a reaction. But regardless, the fact that they sit down and they say, hey, how can we make this entire conflict as quick and efficient as possible. And all of them are like, oh yeah, we just fucking sexually assault as many women and kids as we fucking can.
Like, you have to be a truly disgusting pile of shit beyond like, just in a human completely inhuman to even consider something like that.
Like, literally going, hey, how do we destabilize all this? Let's take a war crime and multiply it by fucking 10. Yeah, easily.
It's fucking disgusting. So,
like I said, they get all their, they have all their weapons, their hope is to quietly inform Serb residents to evacuate areas of focus, like a day before they start pushing local militias in before they start pushing the JNA in, anything like that. They go, hey, if you're a Serb in this area, get out.
So we don't accidentally fucking rape your wife. Yeah.
So they evacuate the Serbs. Well, their plan is to evacuate the Serbs and then destroy mosques and cultural monuments right off the bat. Then that's when the local secret police step in and begin literally raping, pillaging and killing.
This is followed by detaining non-Serv residents, which is the Croats, and placing them in prison camps where they sexually abuse and beat them as well.
And it's stated in their plan that mass killings in these prison camps are encouraged. They literally looked at the fucking Holocaust and went, you know what, I like how the Nazis did it. Let's fucking do that.
Yeah, but now we have technology. Let's so we can do it a little better. God damn, dude. The state orders that non-Serves are, they plan that the state would order that non-Serves are forced out of work.
And then when they're sent home, they have all their fucking work belongings and everything. They get home. The Serb military, whatever local military, has them sign away the fucking rights to their homes, which in their eyes is like, oh, well, you're no longer a citizen.
And so they're immediately fucking deported to where anywhere but anywhere but Bosnia out of the country. Yeah.
Anywhere that isn't greater Serbia. It is completely fucked. They just roll out the doors kicking. Like I said, although this is just the plan, this is almost perfectly executed to what they planned.
It was about a year later, right? Yeah, a year later from from when they planned all of this in March 1991. March 1st, 1992 is when we get like the first level of conflict.
And I'll talk about I'll talk about the wedding in like a month. I need a break in two weeks. I'll be fucking talking about a high something a hell of a lot more like a little more lighthearted.
Yeah, we need some some mid century idiots running around dropping famous paintings or something. Yeah, exactly. So we're not done yet. No, we're going to skip forward six months.
It's about August 1991. Serb officers in the People's Army hold a military strategy here meeting, which is kind of like the like, oh, it's just a standard meeting.
And it looks that way on the surface, but it doesn't seem entirely necessary as there isn't this major, major conflict going on.
Yeah, you've got unrest because they just like Bosnia and Herzegovina just got their their independence like six months prior.
But it's not like there are people just fucking shooting in the streets right now. So why why are we getting generals and why are we having this big strategy meeting? What the fuck is the strategy for?
You know, so it doesn't seem entirely necessary.
And a month later, the prime minister of Yugoslavia comes out with some really intriguing information.
Really? Apparently, during a meeting about the JNA hierarchy, the People's Army, Milosevic, who is president of Serbia, tells Radovan Karadzic to get in touch with the People's Army general, Huzla, which doesn't.
It's like, OK, I guess. But Bosnia isn't a part of fucking Yugoslavia anymore. I don't know why this is even happening.
He says, now is the time to order the distribution of weapons and that the local regimes in Bosnia should be armed once the RAM plan begins.
Now, OK, so it's not just the country that after everybody seceded, they want everybody who seceded back.
So the countries that seceded.
Yeah. So remember, back all Serbs in one state.
Yeah. So they're going to say, oh, this state seceded, but there are still Serbs in it.
So therefore, that's our state. And we get everybody else out.
More or less, what they're saying is like they may have seceded, but all of the areas that are in there.
I talked about this in the last episode, all the areas within Bosnia and Herzegovina that are Serbian based.
They're like, we want to loop that in. And suddenly that's part of Serbia.
I mean, it just sounds like an excuse to take back the lost.
That's all it is.
The lost land and the lost country.
Yeah, the lost land and then kick out everybody who wanted to be separate anyway.
It's literally fucking Serbian.
Just making sure I'm on the right page.
It's just Serbian nationalism at its best.
OK, that makes sense why they're arming Serbian people in every other country.
Yeah, as they say, hey, if we have.
It's not enough that they just ethnically cleanse that country.
They got to do the other countries around it.
They clearly clear out Bosnia of anyone that's that's Muslim or Croatian.
And Bosnia says, hey, we vote Radovan in power and Radovan says, hey, we're Serbian now.
And they just merge in with Serbia.
Here's the the intermission.
Did I have I talked about on this episode that I worked with somebody who was born in this area in this time period.
So she she was she's the one that commented.
Yeah, no, no, she was, you know, infant during this time period.
But like they were Bosnian Muslims and her dad was in a work camp.
He was able to get out, took the family and fled and was able to get to the United States.
But which is a fucking miracle that she would talk about because she knew I liked history.
So she would talk about about what her parents had to go through.
It's crazy. It is insane that they were able to get out.
When I talk about that, she didn't just get shot in the street.
I think it's Sabrina.
There's an account where they basically take all of because of what Operation Ram was.
They took all of the women and children.
The UN took all of the women and children and put them in like a fucking giant cement bunker.
And they were like, we're just going to make sure the Serbs don't come here and like rape you.
Damn. There was a woman that walk you in actually doing something.
There was a woman that walked up to walked up to this UN rep, handed him her baby.
Oh, yeah, you were telling me about and then just was like, he my child is safer with you and then disappeared.
He was like, I it blew my mind that this woman trusted someone trusted a blue hat more than anybody else.
That that putting her baby in a stranger's hands was a better situation than it going anywhere else.
But crazy, completely fucked.
So back to this this phone call.
Yeah, so the president of Serbia clearly in on all of this.
It's not just Radovan that's like, oh, hey, I'm over Bosnia.
I'm going to set everything up before I come into power.
It's also Serbia that's dipping their toes in the corruption.
So the shadow government basically has support of the actual president of an entire established of the country.
So, oh, my God. Yeah.
Daniel. So they're they're they're basically not a shadow government.
Yeah. Like imagine, imagine if the Nazis fully took power over over Poland and Poland was like,
we're going to create a shadow government to really call out all these Jews.
That's what's going on here.
So he says, like I said, now's the time to distribute the weapons.
There should be local regimes in Bosnia that are armed once Ram begins.
And he points out that the Montenegro president asked his men,
whoever's not ready to die in Bosnia, step forward five bases and nobody did.
That's what he says on this phone call.
He's like, oh, yeah, hey, by the way, in Montenegro, everyone's willing to die in Bosnia. Jesus.
Milosevic is dumbass is like, hey, Ram is of strategic importance, by the way, Karadzic
and Radovan, you know what Ram is, right?
And Radovan fucking smiles and he goes, oh, yeah, I know everything.
Yeah, I mean, I coordinated it.
Damn. That's like imagine talking to somebody about this deep like government secret.
And they're like, oh, yeah, I actually made that. Yeah.
Holy shit. That's terrifying.
Milosevic is like, hey, we have this really fucking in-depth plan in place.
And it is the most important part of us getting Bosnia.
Do you need me to go over what Ram is?
And he goes, yeah, I fucking planned it, dude. Yeah.
This is me. And he's and it's not like it's not like he's being serious.
It's said in the report that he says in a very positive light.
Yeah, I know everything. I know everything.
And he's just fucking smiling. He's like, yeah, I know all of it.
I know everything. Yeah, I know about this.
Oh, yeah. The raping of children. Yeah, I signed off on that.
Yeah. Yeah. That was my idea.
Ratko fucking sent all his info up to me, too.
So he's also told that the military, the local military is ready to be mobile, like in September 1991.
It's ready to be mobile.
And he reminds him to report to General Yuzalac within the hour.
Now, I'm sure you're like, where the fuck is the proof?
Like, OK, the prime minister of Yugoslavia is like, like, imagine at the time, there's not really a lot that's come out.
You've got Bosnia that's in power. You've got the SDS.
It's like, oh, we're all Serbian. And it's like, OK, I get it.
But you haven't run into a lot of a lot of like head to head battles or anything.
Yeah. And the tension hasn't broken. Yeah.
You kind of just get this report in the newspaper and you're like, what the fuck is this?
Like, prime minister, what the shit are you saying?
He puts down fucking tapes, recorded tapes of the phone call.
The things that I just read to you are verbatim what were said on those fucking tapes.
Damn. Over the phone.
They're just my I imagine that they had their their meeting about the the how how the JNA was going to be set up, like who who gets hierarchy and everything.
And the phone call ends, the meeting's over.
And they like these two, Melissa, which in grads, it's just sit there on the phone for like five minutes after.
And the prime minister did the same fucking thing.
He just sat there and he was like, press record.
I know there's some shit going down. And these two fucking idiots, they just talked after a goddamn meeting.
Like among everybody, they go, OK, now that everybody's gone and the and Prime Minister Markovich is like, OK, I'm so fucking glad I sat in on this.
In September, this is released to a newspaper.
This is given to the press. It's exposed.
And the prime minister says in the report that the People's Army has placed itself directly in the service of one side and that they are waging war, waging their own war with Croatia.
And he demands that the defense minister resign immediately.
He doesn't, of course. Why the fuck would he?
He's got the entire JNA behind him. And this is where a lot of the conflict begins because this comes out.
It's discovered, hey, what the fuck is RAM?
So they start to look a little bit more into these things.
They start to find out what some of these plans are that the Serbs have.
And it starts to get just bonkers in October 1991.
Like I said, I'll be talking about that in like a month.
Watch out for the butcher Bosnia series.
A little title that will be coming out.
I'm going to take a step back from this topic.
Yeah, take a couple of weeks for a couple of weeks.
But after the UN's investigation in I think 2003 or shortly after the war,
it was discovered that sexual assault was a systemic policy of the Serbian government and military forces
with the explicit intention of creating an ethically or an ethnically pure state.
Over 1700 women were left displaced.
These are just the numbers of those that survived, mind you.
All between the ages of 12 to 60, a very large portion of which were all found to be pregnant.
Damn.
Yeah, it's fucked.
Yeah, it's way fucked.
Some shit.
And this is like, it gets worse.
I know, it gets worse.
This is just like, this is the plan.
This isn't being carried out.
It gets so fucking out of hand.
I generally like doing more lighthearted episodes.
But as all of this has been just like, I read it and I'm like, what the fuck?
There's so much more into this than I could have ever imagined.
And it's kind of stuff that I'm like, if I didn't know that any of this shit happened,
and we've been doing historic episodes for almost four years now,
I'm sure there are a lot of people that don't know what the fuck happened over there.
Yeah, that anything did happen.
Like, you know, this was, I don't know, this was probably considered one of the,
before the current war in Ukraine, probably NATO's last involvement in a,
I'd say it was a large conflict just by the numbers.
By the numbers.
That was towards the end.
Yeah, that was way at the end.
Of course it was at the end.
NATO basically solved everything.
Well, well.
NATO kind of like helped to end everything.
Yeah, NATO definitely facilitated the ending.
But just like, if it takes that to stop it, that's a big conflict.
It gets to a fucking head.
So yeah, another installment of The Butchers of Bosnia.
Yeah, we're here.
I don't have enormous bags under my eyes.
No, no, no.
Because I've just weighed down with the weight of having to fucking continue this.
I've done this to myself.
But this month, Patreon, you won't get an exclusive on Butchers of Bosnia.
April, though, I might.
Just kind of give you.
No, that's my month.
I might.
Oh, you might just do it.
I might. We'll see.
It just kind of depends on how fucking beat down I am at that point.
So, yeah, that's your setup for for the Yugoslavian Civil War.
Patreon, like I said, I might have something planned for you guys.
It's not going to be like, hey, this is the most major event.
I'm not going to do Sarajevo for the fucking Patreon exclusive.
Don't worry.
It'll probably just be like something within like one of many, one of the many, many atrocities of this.
But if you are interested in getting an additional episode per month, find us on Patreon.
We do an extra episode per month.
We have a bunch of sloppy seconds, which were kind of just some bullshit that we would when we would sit around and talk back and forth.
We have a couple of those.
AJ has his voices series.
That one's fucking amazing.
Check that out.
And then I think we have an exclusive look into the studio.
Yeah, we got just a couple of random stuff in there.
Check it out.
If you can afford it, kick ass.
If you can't, don't worry about it.
Yeah.
So, yeah, we, you know, we've got the board.
You hear about them every time.
If you don't just turn us off immediately.
But if you do listen all the way through, we've got the board.
Mini D, Nordic Thunder, Toddle Waddle, and Westin.
They officially, if you try to sue us, it goes to them because they make the decisions.
Yeah, they decide whether you can sue us or not.
Yeah, yeah.
So you have to run it by them.
Of course, we've got Abby, AJ's third nut, Thomas, Dark Runner, Dee's nuts, and Laura Revo.
Thank you guys so much.
So fucking much.
It's a huge deal that we get to hang out.
We only hang out once a week.
Yeah, yeah.
In person.
In person.
And we get to, you know, talk about some shit, some shitty shit.
You guys make that possible.
So thank you so very much.
And as always, if you ever have any show ideas, which thank you this week, we've gotten a
couple show ideas, we've gotten feedback from people.
Thank you so much.
Send all your cool, crazy stuff.
Haley, specifically.
Thank you for reaching out about Unit 731.
We will be getting into that eventually.
After all the dark Yugoslavia shit.
Yeah, we got to space it out.
We got to space it out a little bit.
But yeah, if you guys ever have any show ideas or recommendations for movies, TV, books,
music, whatever, if you just need somebody to chat with about fucking anything at all,
by all means, reach out to us on Instagram at points.
Oh, pressure or feel free to email us at PPDN AJ at Gmail.com.
We'll catch you guys next fucking Monday.
Thank you.